Curse

selber · Sep 25, 2006, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Admins Bane

They implemented the skill into the game, this so called "exploit" should be laid at Anets feet and not the guilds.

Also I fail to understand why it's so bad for the GL to go down quick, wouldn't this encourage more creative play by teams if they know the GL is under "true" threat? lets face it no one worries about the GL because he is nigh on impossible to solo correct? now that he is solo able this will show us who is truly a worthwhile team.

Perhaps this is too much of a challenge for the average GvG player?

This is what happens if a PvE-player raises his hands on a GvG-issue. Ouch. Nothing more to say here.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Sep 25, 2006, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Admins Bane

They implemented the skill into the game, this so called "exploit" should be laid at Anets feet and not the guilds.

Also I fail to understand why it's so bad for the GL to go down quick, wouldn't this encourage more creative play by teams if they know the GL is under "true" threat? lets face it no one worries about the GL because he is nigh on impossible to solo correct? now that he is solo able this will show us who is truly a worthwhile team.

Perhaps this is too much of a challenge for the average GvG player?

I <3 you, but you are very much incorrect with many of the things you have said in this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fansite Friday #62

How much Health does the Guild Lord have?

The Guild Lord has 1920 Health and 5 arrows of Health regeneration.

In addition, the Guild Lord has an ability called “Natural Resistance” which reduces by half the duration of all timed Conditions and Hexes cast upon him. (Many boss monsters also have this ability.)

What is the formula for Guild Lord Damage?

At the start of the game, the Guild Lord can take no more than 50 damage points per second. Over the first approximately 15 minutes of the game, the damage limit gradually increases up to 250 damage points per second.

If the Guild Lord takes damage that would exceed this limit, his amulet heals him for the difference. If the Guild Lord loses Health due to damage-over-time effects or other direct loss of Health, then once every second, his amulet heals him for the amount of Health he lost that exceeds the limit.

The limit increases at a constant rate of 11.6% per minute, starting when the game clock reads 0:00 and the gates open. The limit reaches 100 at 6:19, 150 at 10:00, 200 at 12:37, and 250 at 14:39, after which it remains at 250 for the rest of the game.

So I haven't done any math on the subject, but after a minute he can take about 50-70 damage a second or so. I realize that Signet of Might isn't damage and life steal (i.e. grenth's balance) won't work on the GL, but the fact that one skill can totally and completely destroy the guild lord is redicouls (sp?). And no one really wories about one person because the GL regens 10 health a second and has 1920 Health.

Spura · Sep 25, 2006, 06:29 AM // 06:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Admins Bane

They implemented the skill into the game, this so called "exploit" should be laid at Anets feet and not the guilds.

Also I fail to understand why it's so bad for the GL to go down quick, wouldn't this encourage more creative play by teams if they know the GL is under "true" threat? lets face it no one worries about the GL because he is nigh on impossible to solo correct? now that he is solo able this will show us who is truly a worthwhile team.

Perhaps this is too much of a challenge for the average GvG player?

Wow. Try to avoid commenting on gvg in future.

ChildeOfMalkav · Sep 25, 2006, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Admin's Bane. Please stop posting. You clearly have no idea how SoM was screwing GvG and the ladder up or you're one of the exploiters trying to justify this.

Andro · Sep 25, 2006, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Not to mention all the champion points they must have got.

Zui · Sep 25, 2006, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andro

Not to mention all the champion points they must have got.

Champion points were already devalued, though. D/Mos? Thumpway?

Rallick · Sep 25, 2006, 06:55 AM // 06:55

So far I must admit that your alpha testers really had a few serious screw ups as of late. Dervish one is the most evident, as most of my game fellas noticed the uberness of mysticism in first 10min of playtime. It was just pure and ugly incompetence.

Having some experiences with IT testing myself, I start to wonder if you even have any compiled test cases for your alpha testers or do you just throw them at the game without any guidelines.

yesitsrob · Sep 25, 2006, 07:06 AM // 07:06

You can't blame _all_ the alpha testers, the stories of things being mentioned and some retardfaces completely shooting down a very valid point are plentiful. From what I've been told some people in alpha are a complete waste of life. It's as if they are all from GWO or something

Zui · Sep 25, 2006, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rallick

So far I must admit that your alpha testers really had a few serious screw ups as of late. Dervish one is the most evident, as most of my game fellas noticed the uberness of mysticism in first 10min of playtime. It was just pure and ugly incompetence.

Having some experiences with IT testing myself, I start to wonder if you even have any compiled test cases for your alpha testers or do you just throw them at the game without any guidelines.

It's already very clear their Alpha for Nightfall sucks. Just from looking at how the two beta events have gone compared to how the Factions events went... That's without people who are in the Alpha saying that it's mostly full of PvErs who don't know the first thing about PvP or game balance...

Bokocasso · Sep 25, 2006, 07:24 AM // 07:24

How the heck are you supposed to counter a skill that you don't know what is capable of and does things which are not described anywhere, so if you haven't experienced it on your back you can't be prepared for it.

-Loki- · Sep 25, 2006, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

It's already very clear their Alpha for Nightfall sucks. Just from looking at how the two beta events have gone compared to how the Factions events went... That's without people who are in the Alpha saying that it's mostly full of PvErs who don't know the first thing about PvP or game balance...

Unfortunately that won't change either. It's hard enough getting your guild together to play GvG. Then, they want you to play on the alpha ladder to test or actually play on the live ladder. You know what every competitive player is going to choose there don't you, particularly if theres a championship live.

Lord Dobo · Sep 25, 2006, 08:35 AM // 08:35

I know I am beating a dead horse here, but hell, I got to this thread late.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Admins Bane

I fail to see how this was an "exploit" ...

Of course you do

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Admins Bane

Lets have a look at the evidence..

Did these "offending" guilds make the skills? No
Did they use a certain build to their advantage? Yup

Analogy... A person is attending a cash register or is using an ATM. The key for the # 9 is expected to do nothing more than register the # 9 on the display, yet every time the key is pressed, the machine spits out a fresh $100 bill and the person keeps it... infact, continues to press it like a little maniac.

Did the person make the machine? No
Did the person use the OBVIOUS error to their advantage? Yes.

Your arguement holds no logic, other than to agrue that someone who is aware of an error should not be held accountable of their actions in exploiting said error. Steal much? It's the workplace's fault for making it possible to steal in the first place afterall... personal morals or ethics be damned. Valid life choice... still makes said person scum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Admins Bane

Could the build be countered? Of course, anything can be countered IF you use that thing called a brain.
Should they be punished? Hell no, they used a viable build at the time
Is life fair? No

Why not just get rid of classes altogether and just make BLUE players and RED players? Blue players only skill would be Win xEnergy yCast zRecharge while the RED players would have the skill Boredom x Energy y Cast zRecharge Skill Description: Temporarily hold of losing another boring match.

I argue that, holding with the tradition of just about every nation on earth, rules violators should be punished... Shocking I know!

And yes, life is fair. It's a chaotic jumble that favors cheaters, yes. But as the universe ages, more ordered structures arise, even though people are blinded by entropy. Was that overly philosophical? Yes. But societies have long countered cheaters with punishment, some more harsh than others... and that punishment always comes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Admins Bane

Wish I dealt with softies like you in the real world, I'd be even richer.

Dont like my opinion? Tough, some of you will get a big shock when you hit the real world away from mummy and daddy.

Way to bring credibility to your arguement. Your <HARDCORE EXTREME REAL WORLD JOB OMG YES SO HARDCORE!!! YOU'RE SO LEET!!!> taught you to close with an insult to the few likely to fall into that catagory? Effective debating skills, valuable in the workplace. Mummy and Daddy must be so proud of you! Being gone from home, what? 5 years? Such wisdom learned in that short of time. I suspect that you are going to be the next Budha.

Yes, I know that it's hipocritical to close that way. Only... I'm not debating... just beating a dead horse.

Tremere · Sep 25, 2006, 10:02 AM // 10:02

Since you all can't see to read, or just didn't bother with my previous post, there is a simple compromise between ANet and the community conceptually over this issue.

A way to mitigate the gains exploit abusers reap during the times bug's exist around and after preview event's and new expansion releases is simple. I personally vote for HALVING or possibly QUARTERING (or any fraction people think works and is effective) the gains from ladder play during, as I previously stated, these 'abuse vulnerable' periods. Even if guild's were to gain 1 point per match on the ladder, they would still play in the droves (from my experience the guilds that populate the ladder at all, are bloodhounds for the gains, however small they would be), and any and all advantages they would gain from the abuse would basically be divided per whatever ratio you wanted to divide their point per match winnings from.

Its a simple solution. Yeah, I agree, its not perfect. But it would allow a sort of 'buffer' during these times where security due to lack of testing is a low point, and once the bugs had been identified, it could be returned to normal, and the small gain's from exploit abusal would be washed away in the tide of normal winning accumulation.

This concept basically saves the ladder as much as theoretically possible while still preserving GvG interest from the participating guilds (exploit abusers too, they are tester's like anyone else) allowing for the identification of bug's and the continuation of ladder play.

- Tremere

Lord Dobo · Sep 25, 2006, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tremere

Since you all can't see to read, or just didn't bother with my previous post, there is a simple compromise between ANet and the community conceptually over this issue.

Are you seriously complaining? Are you actually mad that no one has commented on your idea in around 60 posts? You sure do think highly of yourself and obviously assume that since you've been ignored that everyone must not have read the briliant ray of light that will clear this whole situation up and bring life back to jaded gamers everywhere...

Seriously...

I hope that's not what you are actually doing. You're opening line seems to hint at that.

Honestly, Khift, Kook~NBK~, and dgb (posts 92, 94, and 95) did a damn fine job of explaining what is going on out there in a manner that is well thought out and is easy to read. Repost your idea if you want, because it's not half bad, but don't whine that we are not paying attention to you.

Tremere · Sep 25, 2006, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Lmao...

Seems 'someone' didn't get enough fibre in their breakfast cereal this morning

And yeah, it is a good idea, thank you.

Sol Is Pyrrhus · Sep 25, 2006, 11:31 AM // 11:31

The guilds that exploited this are going to get knocked back down the ladder because they don't deserve their rating. It's as simple as that. There's still plenty of time left in the season, and the wins garnered from a few hours of exploits are inconsequential compared to the rest of the season. IMO, what Spearmen did during the last preview event doesn't even come close to [sTar] farming rating with this exploit, but that's just me...

Tremere · Sep 25, 2006, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Is Pyrrhus

The guilds that exploited this are going to get knocked back down the ladder because they don't deserve their rating. It's as simple as that. There's still plenty of time left in the season, and the wins garnered from a few hours of exploits are inconsequential compared to the rest of the season. IMO, what Spearmen did during the last preview event doesn't even come close to [sTar] farming rating with this exploit, but that's just me...

Yeah, I understand that like many of us here, but that's like basically saying "Ah well, since the affect-effects of such abuse aren't going to have long-term ramnifications, its not really 'wrong-enough' to do anything about, or really put the effort into doing anything about... so, why bother?" ...which to me, seems to be backhanded endorsement of such behaviour. Or maybe i'm just in a law-enforcement wet-dream, I dunno...

latbec · Sep 25, 2006, 12:35 PM // 12:35

This bug is bad. Other stuffs were clearly unbalanced. But honestly, the Devs are trying this time to implement 'usefull' skills as opposed to a bunch of useless skills that came out with factions. The only way to test this is to run it through a beta that includes ton of players. However, I agree that the ladder should be frozen during such.

Something broke along the way, the kids had fun with an exploit. Now, as with any kids caught with their hand in the cookie jar, it's time to give a well-deserved punishment to the guilty.

Estri · Sep 25, 2006, 12:37 PM // 12:37

people who use bug exploit just deserve a bann : there's no excuse about signet of might, people who used it on pvp knows that it was one exploit bug and done it by knowledge and not by ignorance. Stop to blame anet, they don't obliged people to use signet of might like this, blame people who can't resist to use bug exploit instead of just reporting it.

Farok · Sep 25, 2006, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I'd like to comment on something: Locking the ladder during the Beta Test sounds like a poor idea to me. During the events, we're able to have tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of people try out the skills, reveal the exploits, and generally help us make a better game. They get the fun of an early look, and the interest of seeing how things are and, upon release, what they become.

To lock the ladder during an event sounds counterproductive to me. We want and need people playing PvP, and locking the ladder will discourage that.

Hmmm... maybe the answer is some sort of "event ladder" that has no impact on the overal system. So if you find an exploit, good job, but it's not going to give you a leg up on a championship or a fast run for a trophy.

I just don't see where locking the ladder is the best idea, for it seems that the number of people playing will drop dramatically, which means we'll have less testing and less feedback.

Sorry but that sounds ridiculous.

What about people who just stop playing guilds battles during those events just because of this new overpowered professions/skills. Don't you think people will just try more if it has no effect on ladder? If people is getting bored of locked ladder it's not a shortly locked week-end period that is doing it. People is tired of long period under locked ladder (without expecting any unlocking date sometimes). I really believe that most players when they are in a short beta week-end, will understand that there are some adjustments, and they really want to try some new professions/skills under a trying situation, that means: a locked ladder.

Where's the pleasure of playing a guild battle if you know you're going to face some overpowered or bugged skills? When I lose, I'm not going that mad, but if I'm losing against a player who is cheating or simply exploiting the advantages of the new abilities, it's simply disgusting, and I won't play hours anymore...

So tell us: what's the worse? Locking a ladder for 3 days, and giving players a ladder that has some sense, or simply let them fleeing away because of this non-sense.

Sorry for my english, but it's been a while since I haven't practised english.